SaleHoo

[Coco60bean]

I contacted Jimmy a couple of weeks ago about a supplier I found out to be fraud....and now because of these people I may have to sue PayPal! This is my story....

I was doing research on the web looking for new dropship suppliers to re-open my Ebay store and restart my auctions. Through one of the suppliers I found here, I found an affilate called k-electronics.eu that was supposedly based out of the Netherlands. They had unbelieveably low wholesale prices. I contacted the company by email and began corresponding with someone named Michaal Van Maastret in customer service. I asked a lot of questions and everything seemed like it was on the up and up. So, I posted some listings in my Ebay store and at auction for some of their products.

I got great response to the listings...I had many bids and even sold three items with the Buy-It-Now option. I also had many questions on the other questions and so I began emailing Michaal again to get answers with no response. I began to get suspicious and emailed Jimmy and posted on the forum at SaleHoo. Jimmy was suspicious also and told me that he thought it might be a scam. I immediately emailed Ebay's Customer Service Department asking what to do about my listings. I heard nothing for two days and I became panicky because my listings were going to end soon and I didn't want to have to deal with explaining the situation to more than the three Buy-It-Now customers. I researched on Ebay and found something that told me that I could remove my listings...even the ones with bids..and Ebay would automatically cancel the existing bids. So, I cancelled all my listings on auction and in my Ebay store. I then sent letters to the three Buy-It-Now customers explaining that I had found out that my new supplier was a scam artist and that I could not complete their transactions. I told them I was extremely sorry and that I would refund the entire amount of their purchases through PayPal. The money from these people had been payed through PayPal and went into my PayPal account. I never ordered any items or had anything shipped because I had planned on drop shipping them through k-electronics.

Meanwhile on March 2, 2007, my PayPal account was put into limited access due to "a sudden increase in you transaction volume". Of course I had a sudden increase in my transaction volume....I hadn't had any selling activity for about 6 months because I had closed my Ebay store then temporarily.

Another hook was thrown into the water when I realized that when I had made a purchase from Ebay for my daughter's 21st birthday gift, instead of taking the payment directly from my checking account as they had done in the past when there was no balance in my PayPal account, PayPal took the $302.00 for the gift out of my PayPal balance which was the money from these three Buy-It-Now customers. To add to everything else, Frank Reed began to think I was scamming him...so he filed a complaint with PayPal.

I went on my PayPal account on March 9th, 2007 and refunded the first two Buy-It-Now customers with their money. When I tried to refund the third person, a Frank Reed for his $2,129.95 purchase of a Bose Home Theater System, my PayPal balance was short $302.00 because PayPal had used that amount to pay for my purchase for my daughter's birthday. Instead of taking the $302.00 from my checking account to add to the rest of my balance and to refund Mr. Reed, PayPal scheduled a transfer from my checking account for the entire amount of the refund...$2,067.88 (plus the refund of PayPal fees of $62.07)!! I immediately called PayPal's Resolution Department and spoke to a representative and he told me that there was no way to stop the transfer through PayPal, but that I could contact my bank and have them put a stop on the transfer of the entire $2,067.88. He told me that I could then transfer the $302.00 from my checking to my PayPal account and then the refund would continue as scheduled (complete on March 14th) and everyone would be paid off.

So, I went to my bank and told them that I needed to stop the transfer of $2,067.88 from my checking to my PayPal account. The man at the bank faxed me a paper to fill out and sign for the stop of the transfer. I filled it out and signed it and faxed it back to him. I then called my bank to make sure they received the fax and they told me they had and that the transfer would not be completed. I then authorized a transfer from my checking to my PayPal account in the amount of $302.00 to add to my PayPal balance so that the refund to Frank Reed would be completed on March 14th.

Meanwhile Ebay decided to suspend my account due to "Abuse of Ebay", yet no one there could tell me exactly why or what that meant. They also said that they tend to go along with PayPal when there is a complaint filed.

I called PayPal's Resolution Department again and spoke to a Maureen in that department. The Resolution Department had requested information from me previously in order to "remove the limitations on my account". I faxed them all the information they asked for, excluding shipping information. I explained that the items purchased were never shipped because I was doing dropshipping and the items were intended to be shipped directly from the supplier. The items were never ordered....because I found out the company was a scam before it got to that point. I was trying to prevent an even bigger problem! I explained to Maureen the whole story, she wrote done the information and read each paragraph back to me to check that it was correct, and she said that she would send this information to review for removing the limitations on my PayPal account. She said that I would hear something within 24 hours.

I never heard anything from PayPal. On Friday, March 16th, 2007, my husband got his paycheck automatically deposited into our checking account. When I went to the store to buy groceries, my debit card was denied. I went home and looked at my checking account online and realized that the transfer that I had asked to be stopped went through anyway....and my husband's entire paycheck had been transferred to my PayPal account (2,067.88)!!
I then went into my PayPal account and tried to transfer the $2,067.88 back into my checking account, but because of the limitations on my account, it would not let me. I called PayPal again and spoke to a Ryan in the Resolutions Department. He proceeded to tell me that PayPal had decided to hold all the funds in my account for 180 days (6 months!)!!! I told him he was crazy.. that everyone had been refunded that needed to be and I had done everything they had asked and that they could not hold my money that was not authorized to be transferred in the first place! He told me that "yes, they could" and this is where I am today! My husband just got paid, I have no money to live on for the next two weeks, my bills will not be paid, checks will probably bounce, and utilities will probably be shut off! I am so angry!!!! I will never, ever use PayPal again!!! Be very leary of them....if everything goes well ...they are usually OK. But if you have any sort of problem that is beyond your control....they will rake you through the coals!!!

[jimmy_salehoo]

I know that this is very much a pain in the rear. And this is not uncommon. Even though paypal is the most used for ebay transactions thier actions themselves are slowly killing thier business.

The only thing I can say is visit this site as it might teach you ways to fight paypal and thier aristocratic BS.

Eventually one good thing will happen. Everyone will stop using them forcing them into bankruptsy.Many have moved to other services including google checkout and many others avaliable to us.

** Link Removed: Only Available to Registered Members**

[Trillium]

One time I had someone try and scam me by not sending the items I had ordered and dissappeared immediately after payment. They were actually verified and confirmed. I paid through PayPal using a Credit Card. So I filed a dispute with PayPal and the C.C. Even after there was no responses from the seller, PayPal ruled in their favor and closed the dispute (a large amount). I guess PayPal did not want to loose all this money. A few days later when my CC finally contacted PayPal my dispute was reopened and then PayPal reversed their ruling and ruled in my favor.

[shepherds]

I am also anti-paypal, I will probably be losing my income tax refund to them in a couple of days. I was suspended from ebay for a trademark issue that they were incorrect about, then they limited my access to paypal and said all of my fees were due now and charged my bank account! Are there any other popular checkouts other than Paypal and Google? Also, are you allowed to use Google on Ebay? I feel your pain, my mortgage will probably not get paid this month. :evil:

[Coco60bean]

This is an update to my dilemna....

I ended up going to my bank who had let the transfer of the 2,067.88 go through even though I had requested the stop on the transfer. The bank realized they had made a mistake and reversed the transfer by putting the money back into my checking account and crediting me for all the fees and check charges acrued. Now, they get to deal with PayPal directly to fight to get their money back! My PayPal account is still limited and my Ebay account is still suspended.....so much that I can't even get access to pay my fee bill. I have decided to go somewhere else and set up my own website and use Google checkout. Does anyone out there have any suggestions for starting my own website?

[jimmy_salehoo]

try godaddy they have good prices and secure websites.

[tntcpu]

i haven been using 1and1.com for years. Godaddy is cool to. Check em both out

[fm1234]

These are all mainly the product of eBay and PayPal's "guilty until proven innocent" approach to sellers. People rave and rave about "consumer protection" aspects of eBay and PP but this is how they do it -- by screwing over honest sellers caught in the middle of scams and substandard suppliers.

[cazzabangeramshank]

I've seen one or two people use paymate? I'm not sure how good this is. Does anyone use this, or knows someone that does?

[Trillium]

Anyone can buy something through Paymate but I think you have to be in Australia to sell through Paymate.

[litoallie]

if your looking to start your own website but not really familiar with HTML's you could use yahoo small business with all templates given it looks pretty good . i'm looking to open one myself! maybe i could link your page to mine (vice versa!) to increase traffic flow !!

[bayericlowe]

That's the whole moral of the story.

Paypal is sub-standard and poor when it comes to service. That means you have no choice in the matter, always look before you leap.


There is one great and wonderful silver lining. Google Pay is out very soon and will make Paypal obsolete. uBid, eBay and others will be forced to use Google Pay and will come to switch over.

And then Google Checkout is great too but that's already out, and it works specifically for online stores.

But once the bureaocracy takes effect they will become just as terrible as Paypal, so I want to see at least 3 payment providers enter the ring.

There are new services out now like CCS. I have not heard of them but I am checking it out. Most of these payment options, especially Paypal and Moneybookers, will only ever be good for small amount transactions.

Receiving maybe $300 at a time at most.

Anything above that, is highly risked and susceptible to online fraud. Paypal & its ilk deal with fraud by punishing the merchant consumer, this was their fatal mistake. To deal with transactions that are a large amount, someone needs to talk to both the buyer and the supplier and arrange the payment via Credit Card AFTER the billing address is verified to match the shipping address.

This would eliminate most every kind of risk there is. But not completely, so if you deal with any large transactions always ask your bank to watch it and make sure it isn't marked or illegal funds.

[mana2006]

I can't wait till a new system comes out. I have had my fair share of problems with paypal and ebay. I now prefer B2B over online auctions. Thoguh I still sell online from time to time. I use go daddy for web hosting and have had good luck. I am also waiting to see what auctiva does in the near future. They say they will have a store format soon. Maybe a good idea for ebayers

[jimmy_salehoo]

Yeah I heard about google wallet and that google was creating thier own auction type service. That might challange Ebay and Craigslist classified market for domination of the online sales marketshare.

Heck with the millions and millions of googlers and a fraud free payment service . It would definately take a chunk out of ebays revenues.

Ebay better get thier paypal problems fixed soon. And spend more time fighting fraud.

[mana2006]

I have heard about the wallet and actually looked into it a bit. Seems like a good program. Just hope that they expand the system soon. I think Ebay could improve if they had more compeition out there.