paypal offers no seller protection at all!

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raiderjake
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3 May 09 10:47:02 pm
ive been buying broken ps3's on ebay for 3 or 4 months now. i get a bunch in, test all the parts and part out all the working parts. i normally double my money on every ps3 i part out. 2 days ago i woke up and checked my paypal account to find that some one had opened a claim on a motherboard i had just sent them. im furious b/c i know it works. since paypal put a hold on that money, $175! i didnt have the money for my ebay fees. my paypal account is -$100 so there is now an e-check in process to my bank. i call paypal immediately and tell them that there is nothing wrong w/ the motherboard i sent them. we go over what the customer said and the process of fighting this claim. realizing that this will take forever! and that paypal is not gonna do ANYTHING for me! i agree that they can return it for a refund. i ask what happens when i receive it, and it's not in the condition i sent it in? what if they strip it for parts? the lady told me i could then file a police report,..........

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raiderjake
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3 May 09 10:55:54 pm
sorry my ps3 wont let me ramble on in length, where was i? what good is a police report gonna do? is some dectective gonna waste his time w/ some1 on the east coast who may or may not have stolen from me, and just my word against theirs? it wouldn't be so bad if this was an isolated incident, but today i wake up to another message about some1 wanting their money back on an item that i know for a fact that it works! i tell him to return it cause paypal isnt gonna do anything, even though i dont even have the$109 to refund but maybe i can stall. anyways i am totally dicouraged and thinking about giving up on this whole ebay/sales thing. any1 have any ideas on what i should have done differently? i give up!

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fudjj
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3 May 09 11:24:52 pm
Sounds to me that you may have a couple that are going to pull a swap on you, send you their broken ones and claim their payment back.

When you are in the business of selling anything, and accepting payments like PayPal or credit cards in general, you should always factor a fraudulent % into your bottom line.

I actually operate what I call a fraud account, and I put 10% away of my gross sales into that account, and then use it to pay out on these type of situations.

I find I get hit at around 3% per annum personally, so my fraud account remains very well topped up and I treat myself to a cash bonus at the end of the financial year by trimming some cash out of it.

I'm quite lucky with that sort of rate, but I do everything in my power to keep it as low as I possibly can. I know of others that get stung around 10% on per annum on charge backs.

You can catalogue all parts serial numbers, and keep that log completely up to date with all the relevant purchase details. That won't stop the charge back of course, but if someone does pull a swap then you have the record of proof.

What good is it?

Well at the end of the day, depends how serious the police treat it, and that all depends where you live, manpower, crime rate, you name it!

What I would do is to then list the fact that all parts are tested and make a serious point to inform potential buyers that I also have their serial numbers categorized to prevent fraudulent swaps.

That may have the effect of moving the crooks past your listings if they think there will be problems trying to screw you over, and they may just try to find an easier target.

The best thing you can do is to try and collect payment by more secure methods, direct transfer for example. That will take the chance of charge backs out of play completely.

Even offer a small discount if people choose to pay via bank transfer as that may encourage them to close the deal on terms that are much safer for you as the seller.

Always use the feedback system when dealing with ebay, it can help you to find potentially problematic members by low feedback scores and such, not fool proof, but you need to use as many tools as you can, and put as many procedures in place to protect yourself.


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raiderjake
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3 May 09 11:43:21 pm
thanx for your help fudjj. i knew to expect this, its just discouraging you know. i guess i was naive to expect paypal to offer some kind of protection for me, seeing how they have no problem taking my money. you take paypal, now im saying this just as an example, cause there is no way i would do this to any one. but what if?,,, say i bought what we've been talking about buying from you, and when i got it, i claimed that i didnt get what was described and opened a claim against you? now i may or may not win this claim but that money is automatically put on hold and could take a month or 2 to clear up the dispute. thats close to $10,000 that you worked hard to get probably gonna pay your rent. and now its on hold til who knows when. frustrating to say the least.

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fudjj
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4 May 09 12:13:54 am
Yep, you are exactly right. It is hard to sallow some times, it really is. I know that Paymate is now accepted on ebayUS, and I would suggest using them for credit card transactions if you can.

Not sure how it works in the US, but here any money paid into your account before 4pm Sydney time, is actually transferred bank account that night!

Worst case, with 24 hours of the transaction.

That won't stop a charge back, but you will already have the cash and then the charge back will usually take around three months to process, so that can put scammers off for little purchases.

They also have excellent fraud security for suspect cards used for the transaction. I wouldn't suspect that you would have an issue with stolen cards being used for that type of stock, however they will hold the transaction back if they suspect a stolen card, keep you completely informed while they ping the account in question, and shut the transaction down if the buyer can't respond with the correct information.

That saves you from being taken by a stolen credit card, and can save thousands on a single transaction. PyPal of course will do absolutely nothing, as the seller you would have to wear it!

I think the best thing you can do is to list the serial numbers, and then make a BIG point about what you do, and why you do it in your listing. I think that will see most scammers mover away because they prefer making easy money, they don't like having to work hard for it.


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raiderjake
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4 May 09 12:39:32 am
thanx, i just checked out paymate, i am definitely go to add that to my ebay payment options, it sounds great, hopefully this will replace paypal one day

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raiderjake
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4 May 09 12:45:51 am
what if i stopped taking paypal? my items sell higher and faster in auction vs buy it now. but would i still have enough bidders to drive up the price to what it should be? does paypal really dominate ebay? seems like it? i'll see how it goes w/ paymate for awhile, maybe offer a 5% discount for those willing to pay w/ paymate

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fudjj
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4 May 09 01:17:12 am
I have no reliable stats regarding those general questions. You can just try different formats to see how much interest each one brings, but that wouldn't give you reliable results unless you did it over something like a six month period, ensuring that different market conditions were factored in.

I wouldn't go with the discount straight up front, just leave it for a few weeks and see the buyers habits.

Just try marketing the Paymate brand first, that may well be enough to twist the arm a little.

Highlight the fact that you are now offering your customers this new payment option for their benefit, if they think you have it there for your benefit they will stay well away because consumers automatically associate anything that is in the sellers best interest, will not be in the buyers best interest.

Disassociate that link buy pointing out the positives for buyers. Things like faster money transfers, meaning that their payment is processed quicker, and that means you can provide them with faster shipping!

You have to assume the role as a Paymate service agent in a way, because you are selling the service to your customers.

If you find that isn't working over a couple of weeks, then look at how you can improve the marketing, and if required at that time a discount could work well.

If I was going with the discount, I would be using the spiel of

'we are currently trialling a new advanced payment option for our customers. A fully SSL encrypted payment option that is completely safe for our customers, while offering faster transaction rates that enables us to provide much faster shipping times, and a better service for all.

For a trial period only, we are offering our customer a discount of X off the winning bid, so it's a win win situation for our customers. You get faster shipping, and a discount on us!

Blah, blah, that type of thing.

I know there are a few members also interested in the Paymate option, so drop some feedback to let everyone know how you are getting on.


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raiderjake
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4 May 09 01:22:35 am
very good advice, thanx

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raiderjake
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6 May 09 10:25:06 pm
just to update my dilemma, i received the motherboard that was supposedly not working / not as described. its still in full working order. so that person just didnt understand what they were doing, i guess. so luckily no loss there. and after talking w/ the guy that bought the 2nd motherboard, i realized he was right and i had made a mistake. so i had no problems w/ refunding his money. so in reality it wasnt that bad, but it could have been, thanx for the advice on all this

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fudjj
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6 May 09 10:31:29 pm
Glad to hear that you got out from under everything without too much damage, and now the big benefit is that you have some ideas to put in place to reduce the chances of things going pear shaped in future :)


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boo1375
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7 May 09 11:01:16 pm
I understand, I sold a commercial print on ebay AS IS NOT WORKING, GREAT FOR PARTS. A computer store bought it and kept it for a month then file a complaint with paypal saying not as advertised. They returned it to me and paypal gave them their money back. The kicker is that they use it for parts. The printer casing was 2 different colors when I got it back. Go figure.

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boo1375
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7 May 09 11:14:05 pm
I understand, I sold a commercial print on ebay AS IS NOT WORKING, GREAT FOR PARTS. A computer store bought it and kept it for a month then file a complaint with paypal saying not as advertised. They returned it to me and paypal gave them their money back. The kicker is that they use it for parts. The printer casing was 2 different colors when I got it back. Go figure.

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raiderjake
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8 May 09 12:24:30 am
ya its scary sometimes, especially w/ repair parts. i feel like i have to constantly double check that they know what they're doing. otherwise when my part doesnt fix there problem, they assume my part is bad

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fudjj
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8 May 09 12:56:38 am
Another thing you can do is outline your return policy in detail in your listing.

Indicate that all parts have been tested before sale and any claim for a refund due to the item being faulty must, on all occasions be supported by evidence in the the form of a written independent test by a certified repairer.

That will also go a long way to help you with PayPal if the buyer wants to file a dispute against you, as well as keep some of the scammers away at the same time!


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ticozone
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9 May 09 07:26:30 pm
Hello,
I have been scammed by a buyer who has bought a software from me for $699, he contacted Paypal and claimed that I have miss advertised the software. Paypal accepted his claim took my money and he sent me the software back after he has opened the seal and downloaded it to his computer. His claim it is not the software he wanted, he resealed the software with a wrap and sent it back to me.
I called the software company and they have informed me that the serial number is active on the buyer’s computer. I have been appealing the decision for a month now and made a police report and still nothing....
I am really frustrated for not protecting Power sellers with 100% feedbacks.....
I have informed Paypal that there is no retailer in the world will return any software after leaving their stores!!!???
I am going to consider other payments from now on....

Tarek

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grboutique
Posts: 289
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9 May 09 08:40:54 pm
Hello,
I have been scammed by a buyer who has bought a software from me for $699, he contacted Paypal and claimed that I have miss advertised the software. Paypal accepted his claim took my money and he sent me the software back after he has opened the seal and downloaded it to his computer. His claim it is not the software he wanted, he resealed the software with a wrap and sent it back to me.
I called the software company and they have informed me that the serial number is active on the buyer’s computer. I have been appealing the decision for a month now and made a police report and still nothing....
I am really frustrated for not protecting Power sellers with 100% feedbacks.....
I have informed Paypal that there is no retailer in the world will return any software after leaving their stores!!!???
I am going to consider other payments from now on....

Tarek



Did you take photos of the return software and sent it to paypal? If not, try to take photos of the actual software which was returned to you and upload them on your paypal dispute. Also, email the manufacturer and if you received an answer that the software you sold your buyer was was new and now is active (which means, he used it and is active on his computer), try to fax that email to paypal dispute department. Always try to look for ways to win your case. I did have a buyer for a PS3 60GB which I sold for $875 and after a month, the buyer filed a claim through his credit card issuer for Unauthorized Payment and paypal held my money for a month. But I have proof of delivery of the item including the receiver's signature. I emailed paypal the tracking number and fax them the receiver's signature. I also called the buyer and asked them why they filed the case and they knew, they bought the item on ebay. I also filed a complaint to Link hidden: Login to view

I constantly called paypal for a month. I told them that I have every proof that my buyer accepted the package and is aware that they bought the item on eBay. I told them that I need the money to buy more stocks and that will be more business for them. Now, don't get me wrong, Yes, paypal does not fully protect you so I suggest to switch to a real merchant account and link it to your eBay account. I will ditch paypal now after what happened but I am glad they did the reversal and fully covered me for the amount of $875.

Regards,
GR =)

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raiderjake
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9 May 09 09:35:25 pm
im glad that worked out for you good job.

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