MidtownCloseout.com nightmare

I have been in retail for 30 years and have owned my own businesses, three of them including a physical storefront, since 1996. We are a corporation and our company name is trademarked. I am no newbie to selling. I have over 200 vendors I deal with on a monthly basis without any problems. Until now. I placed an order with this company for over 500.00 worth of jewelry. This was on July 3rd. I actually wanted to change my order within minutes after submitting it, as the site provided a link to change the order, but when I clicked on it, it said it was too late as it was in processing already. Highly doubtful at 10:00 pm at night before a holiday. On the 5th the site says item was shipped. Tracking came up as invalid. I emailed them twice, politely asking if this order had shipped as the tracking was dead. No response to two emails asking about the order. On July 11th I felt I was being scammed because no goods, dead tracking and no return emails. I emailed them this note-
This order says shipped but still tracking says invalid. This supposedly shipped on July 5th. Please just refund my credit card charge. If I don't see a credit asap I am going to file a chargeback with my bank. I am also filing a complaint with salehoo.

No, it was not friendly, because the last two polite please and thank you emails went unanswered. This is what I received minutes later from them-

Excuse me but if your going to be in business you might want to learn
how to talk to people with some respect and understanding before you
start threating them. There was a simple typo in the UPS tracking
number. We are human and we do make mistakes, unfortunately we are not
as perfect as you are. Below is the correct tracking number and
information for your package which is rescheduled to be delivered today.
We have no more control over UPS ground delivery times than you do. You
can file a compliant with saleshoo or anybody else you like as we are
not even a member of that site. We also have no tolerance for people
that communicate with us this manner and we have terminated your account
on our site which means you are no longer allowed on our site or too
purchase from it.


UPS Tracking Info
Your package is on time with a scheduled delivery date of 07/12/2007.


I was stunned. I was more than angry. I expected an apology and what I got was them telling me they terminated my account. I then emailed the following to this person who did not give his last name.

Dear Steven (no last name),
Perhaps if you had answered my emails I sent to you over a week ago I would not have thought you simply don't care about your customers. If you would like me to resend the emails I'd be happy to do so. They were more than polite. I received no response. None.
I have been in business since 1996 and have never received an email such as this from any of the vendors I have dealt with and I must say I am shocked. You are going to terminate an account because one of your customers has sent you emails, that went unanswered, their credit card was charged on July 3rd with no receipt of merchandise, and they become upset? I am stunned this is how you take care of your customers. I don't believe I have ever spoken to any of my customers in this regard and I have over 10,000 of them. When a customer is upset the best thing to do is to find out exactly why they are upset and try to help them, not give them a lecture and treat them like scum. I really am blown away by this so called customer service. I wanted to have a long term beneficial relationship with you but it appears that you could care less about a brand new customer putting in a small test order.
signed, my name
(I sign my last name and would like yours as I would like to speak to a supervisor about this issue)


I then was so angry I called their CS line. I was sickeningly sweet. I told this no name person that since they have terminated my account I feel it's best that I simply refuse the order as I have no recourse for any refund if something is in error. This no name person agreed and said to refuse and they would credit my card IN FULL.

I then followed up with this email because the more I thought about this, the less I trusted them, after being treated so rudely.

Dear Steve (no last name),
I just spoke to someone who didn't identify himself at your company either. Seems to be a trend. As agreed, I am going to refuse this order, since I will have no recourse if anything is wrong with my order as you terminated what could have been a very lucrative account. I am no newbie in business. In fact, I have been in the retail business for over 30 years. I have never, EVER, been 'spoken' to in this regard by any of my vendors, and I have over 200 vendors that I deal with, two websites, and one physical storefront.
The fact is, this order was listed as shipped on July 5th. The tracking came up dead. I tried emailing you asking about it and received no response. That was last week. I waited and waited and it seems the only way to get any response was to notify you that I would have to file a chargeback with my bank. Sorry but I am not willing to kiss away over $500.00 as it appeared that this order didn't ship and there was no response to my emails asking about it. As a customer, what would you think?
The order will be refused however since we don't get orders of onzies and twosies, it's going to take our shipping clerk some time to get through our pallets to find the order coming from you. As soon as it's found, we will notify UPS to come pick it up with our normal customer shipments. Pardon me if I don't wait for your credit, but I will be filing a chargeback against your company anyway. Why? It's simple. The way I was treated as a new customer makes me very nervous. I don't want to deal with a company that is this uncaring about their customers. Remember the adage, the customer is always right? It's the way I train ALL our employees. Had one of our employees spoken to one of MY customers in this regard, they would have been out the door. The fact is, you made two mistakes. You failed to answer my emails to you asking about this order. When I emailed you again, you were not apologetic about this 'typo', you turned this around on me, the customer who paid YOU over $500.00. That's pretty bad customer service. A simple, we're sorry, there was a typo in the tracking and we are sorry we didn't get back to you last week, would have made me happy, and you would have had a nice account with us. Now all you have is a return order, an upset former customer, shipping charges to eat. I am stunned this is how you do business but it's your business. Good luck with it.


I then called my bank and they agreed to take the charge off my account including shipping because midtown was the party to terminate the agreement. The package did arrive the next day and it was completely smashed up. The driver commented on it and said she knew I would refuse it. Told her that wasn't the reason I was refusing but it just added to it. This is the email I received from midtown after my last email to them. Real nice, professional, people here. Enjoy the read-

We did not receive an email from you last week or it would have been
answered!!! Since you are one of those know-it-all people from the north
east you might want to figure out that emails do not get through these
days! It is simple being polite and business like to open a second email
with did you get the last email I sent and restate your concerns or
questions? It is rude and useless to send an email starting out with
threats and ultimatums. Especially when you do not even know if we had
received your prior email or not before going on a ridiculous triad of
threats and ultimatums! It is know wonder you have been through so many
vendors if you think this is the way to treat them or anybody for that
fact. I have no trouble with new customers or small orders! However I do
have a problem with people that think they can threaten and bully us
because they may become a customer in the future! Your attitude and
email mimics an eBay seller with absolutely no business inexperience
what so ever...

We are liquidators selling real closeout jewelry at below the
manufactures original wholesale prices in LARGE quantities! You are a
small retailer and you may haver to put up with your type of BS, but as
liquidators we do not have too nor do we have the time for this type of
BS! Midtown Closeout has been in business for over 17 years and our
annual sales volume far exceeds yours. As liquidators we work on a low
margin large volume business model. I do not care of you want to throw
a temper tantrum and refuse the order because I will not kiss your rear
end as a potential customer. I hope that you understand that your refund
will be less the shipping to and from since you are refusing the order
as stated in the terms of sale. I am not upset with you nor do I hold a
grudge as you seem to. We simple do not have the time or margins as
liquidators to deal with your type of expectations, lack of
understanding and civil communication skills. I wish you and your
business all the best in the future. By the way, I am not a customer
service rep, a customer service rep wouldn't have the authority to close
your account! I am an owner and your email was forwarded to me by
customer service because it was completely out of line and unreasonable
regardless of what you think.

Best Regards,
Steven
Midtown Closeouts


I was out of line to tell them to refund my card after my card was charged over 500.00 on July 3rd, emails went unanswered until July 12th and was only answered when I told them just to refund my money? Yes, I was upset that it took the promise of a chargeback and a complaint to get them to respond. I admit it. However, I do not think the email they finally responded to was out of line in light of the situation. He mentions a second email? That's laughable. I sent him two polite emails. no response. I guess he couldn't be bothered. I find it laughable that he's telling me how low volume my businesses are. Does he have access to my financials? Give me a break bud. I sell thousands of dollars worth of merchandise a DAY. Ebay sales is something I do on my own and we don't sell store merchandise on Ebay. This guy is a clown. His northeast comment was incredibly ignorant as well. This guy is mentally imbalanced and has a rage problem to say the least.

Sorry for the long post but I think you all should know what a temper this gentleman has and how utterly unprofessional he is when dealing with a new customer who could have purchased thousands of dollars a month in product with his company. His loss.

Sounds like fomr the messages 'Steven' has probably been getting inudated with these types of e-mails. Sounds like Stevo should look at the root problem, his crappy customer service as opposed to attacking his customers.

But this is a good segway to an issue I have noticed for quite some time. Being one of the 'North easterners'. I have noticed quality customer service has all but died in the brick and mortar stores and have found that rudeness from cashiers and customer service professionals increasingly prevalent. As a business professional I have found this in itself is a cancer to any business' longevity. Anybody else notice this increasing trend??

Here’s a funny story on the same line. My wife and 7 y.o daughter were in a local mall when they stopped at a Claire’s. An item caught my daughter’s eye that was priced at 50 cents. She asked my wife if she could buy it with her own money and my wife agreed. When my daughter put the item on the counter and laid out a one dollar bill, the cashier said “Oh, that’s not the price and actually it was $4.” My wife calmly told the cashier what the price on the rack had said for the items and showed the cashier that all the items on that rack were priced similarly. The cashier walked over and ripped the sale sign down and told my wife “Not anymore it isn’t!” Now remember we are talking about a 7 year old buying a cheap item for 50 cents. My wife kept her cool, which far exceeds the verbal assault the cashier would have gotten from me. My wife explained that in Massachusetts you must sell an item at it’s listed price prior to its correction. Now, in the grand scheme of things, had this cashiers said “I apologize but that is an incorrect price. But I’ll take care of that after this sale.” She would of walked away with a complete understanding and more than likely would have paid the $4 for the item. Instead this cashier looked directly at my daughter and said “I’m not letting you have a $4 item for 50 cents….you just want something for free!” My wife nearly strangled this woman and asked for her manager. This slug walks out from the back with half a sandwich in her mouth and states “I’m the assistant manager and you’re not getting it for free.” My wife asked for her name and her manager. She said “How about you give me your name and I’ll call my boss?” To make a long story short….Claire’s paid 50 cents to lose a customer for life.

As in my previous posts I wonder how many companies really know how their employees are treating their customers. And how many of them really give a crap.

I’m going to offer my services here…..I know this already exists but the threat doesn’t seem real to a lot of business employees. I will ghost shop your store and give you a full report on customer service!!! LOL!! Could be my new niche business!!!

Yes, I have absolutely noticed this downhill trend when it comes to CS. I feel so badly for your little one I'd have loved to give those employees at that store a piece of my mind. I have so had it with the rudeness of people, especially those who are taking my money in exchange for their goods. The attitude has become among so many vendors and retailers, that the customer should be so grateful to be doing business with them. It's actually laughable. As a store owner, I've run into some awful customers but it takes a lot to push me over the edge, and I mean a lot. I've been screamed at, called nasty deragatory names over UPS screwups, when a customer can't read the big RED print on our site that states if this is a gift please proceed to enter alternate shipping info at the link in red, next to the gift in your cart. They check out and then I get a nasty email that our site never asked for another shipping address. I've been reamed out when a customer shipped back a return 6 MONTHS after purchase and I sent it right back to her. It was a puzzle box that had human HAIR inside it, food crumbs, etc...it was disgusting. She screamed and yelled and I not once lost my cool. I calmly explained that we accept returns with no questions asked within 7 days of receipt and they must call for an RMA number. I had my life threatened. I still didnt lose my cool.

Our local Stop and Shop has such rude employees they have lost most of the customers. they are actually closing now and they can't seem to get why people are not shopping there anymore.

I want to email this jerk from midtown a few customer service tips but I won't. I am still stewing though. In fact I recently had a customer who put the wrong address on her order so naturally the carrier had to research it, causing a delay. Mind you, we have all over our site and in the order confirmation to please double check the shipping address and even provide a link to the usps address checker. Well her Mother's Day gift, that she ordered the Wednesday before halfway across the country didn't get there in time because she messed up the address. I get in my store on Monday and she's left a voice mail message literally screaming at me so loudly I held the phone away from my ear. Her first words were 'This is Mrs. so and so. I am calling my bank and am filing a chargeback. The tracking shows the gift was not delivered because of a wrong address. The mailman always figures it out, but DHL couldn't?' I also got scads of email. Take a look at this exchange cuz it's a keeper.-
Her very first email to me was this-
On 5/21/2007 6:21:52 PM, Glenda XXXXXXXX wrote:
> OK. this is the original shipping email. As you can see, it took 10 days to deliver this after I paid 20 something dollars to have it there in 2
days. Please refund me my shipping amount. If you cannot or won't do that, please let me know so I can have my bank do a charge back.
>
> Dear Glenda XXXXXXXXX,
>
> Your Gift Basket order has been shipped. Below, you will find the most
> recent shipping profile regarding order number 14766

My response-
Please allow me to investigate the reason as to why there was a shipping delay. According to DHL the address was incorrect. I have to find out where along the line the problem occurred. If it was the cause of our partner store or DHL of course we will refund your shipping fees.

Please be aware that we did get your order out on time and fulfilled our obligation to you. We have no control over carriers. From time to time shipping problems occur with any shipping. This can be due to human, mechanical, or an act of nature.

Please verify your mother's address and I will first compare it with what is on the original order. If it matches, I will call DHL and our partner store to rectify the situation.

Kind Regards,


5 minutes later I emailed her this-
I looked into this order and it shows it was delivered on the 18th at the front door of the recipient. There appears to have been a problem with the address that was submitted, hence the delay. You can see this on the tracking information with DHL.
> Let me know if you have any further questions.
> Kind Regards,


Her response to me-
No further questions, but I am not responisble if your carrier did not
> deliver it to the correct address. That would not be one me. I submitted
> the correct address. So I guess the bottom line is, since she still has
> not received it, what are you going to do about this? I usually don't put out $80 something dollars on a whim'!!!!!

She didn't submit the correct addy. I called DHL at one point. She called them and admitted she 'forgot' to add Ave to the address and there are like 3 of the same street names, one with Circle, one with Road, one with Ave. She screamed at them as well and they told her no refund. Her fault.

My response back-
Please see previous email. I am trying to find out what happened with the shipping delay. There's no need to take this out on me. There is a real human being behind this keyboard and I am trying to rectify the situation for you.


Notice I am keeping my cool as she lambasts me for her mistake. Something Stevo could learn from and I never even went off on this guy.

Next email from her-
I would like an answer and a refund
> of my money. At least the shipping part and I want it delivered to her. If
> I have not heard from you in the next 3 days, I will go forward witht he
> BBB and put in a complaint. this is absolutely unacceptable customer
> service.


That did it, but it took a long time to really get me angry but I think I still held my composure. It was her mistake and yet she is demanding that I refund her shipping charges and she is going to file a complaint with the BBB? so I sent her this final note.

Dear Ms. XXXXXXXX,

As stated on our website and on our order confirmations when you submit the recipient's address-
It is extremely important that you provide an accurate street address for delivery (including apartment or suite #). Our carriers charge an additional Five Dollar-Ten Dollar re-routing charge for incorrect addresses which will be charged to your account if you have given us the wrong address. It doesn't happen very often, but we think you should know in advance - so please double check! Thanks!

PLEASE VERIFY that all Recipients' ADDRESSES ARE CORRECT
AND COMPLETE (Apt./Suite Number, Postal/Zip code, etc.).
UPS charges us $5.00 for each incorrect or incomplete address.
THESE CHARGES WILL BE BILLED TO YOU IF THE WRONG ADDRESS
OR AN INCOMPLETE ADDRESS IS SUBMITTED.
To make corrections to an address, please REPLY to this
email now with the corrected address(es). Thank you.

You did not include the complete street address when completing your order. You left off the AVE. Upon calling DHL, this is what caused the shipping delay. They are not the USPS and will not research an address for free. Below is the standardized address provided by usps.com. We are being charged an additional $10.00 for the incomplete address. We try to emphasize, as you can see, that we need ACCURATE and COMPLETE addresses.

In light of this, we cannot refund your shipping charges as you did not submit a complete an accurate address. As a courtesy we will not be charging you the 10.00 address correction fee we are being charged, but as you can see and verify at usps.com, ups.com or dhl.com, the address you submitted was incomplete.

STANDARDIZED ADDRESS BELOW-
1164 XXXXXX AVE
W ST PAUL MN 55118-2011

Kind Regards,


She of course replied with a last nasty email, telling me that getting money out of us was like dealing with the IRS and she will never shop with us again and will tell all her friends. The email is on my other computer so I can't copy/paste that one, but that's what she said. I didn't respond. I thought good riddance. But I NEVER responded to this PITA customer in any rude way no matter how badly she treated me. I don't think it's just rude vendors, or rude retailers or rude customers. I think people as a whole have gotten a lot more rude over the last ten years and it's easier for them as they cower behind a keyboard. They say things they wouldn't normally say to your face. However in your daughter's case, it is unbelievable how you were treated. I am just stunned how people treat one another. I really am.

Thanks for letting me vent and responding. It helps to know that I am not alone in my disappointment.

Oh and honestly....I could have charged that ten bucks I ate in shipping but didn't as a 'courtesy' to this witch. I have every right to do so as it's posted on our site and on their order confirmations. She makes the mistake, I have to pay DHL an extra ten dollars of my profit (and we make NO money on shipping at ALL) and she's still going at me to get me to refund her the entire shipping fee. People never cease to amaze me.

Well, as we all know there are crappy customers as there are crappy businesses. Luckily, what you described I have found to be the exception more than the rule. But in regards to rude business people, it seems to be a fundamental flaw in how some people run their organization. From retail to biotech, there are a number of people who lack the basic gumption of how to communicate in a way that will allow for understanding. And lets not forget about how easy it is for some knucklehead hiding behind a keyboard to send off nasty e-mails without the threat of reprisal. I had a number of similar instances though not as nasty as your example in where a customer was berating one of my employee's who was doing everything under the sun to appease him. When she suggested he look at his receipt and notice he was NOT charged for the item as a show of good faith, he freaked!!! He began berating her to the point she was in tears. He screamed for her to get her manager. Now I'm a bit more formiddable at 6' 3' and 230 lbs than the high school junior I have working for me. When approached I spoke to him with both professionalism and with courtesy. What's funny is he was extremely courteous to me and didn't raise his voice once. When we finished the conversation I asked him if he felt the service he received was adequate? He replied 'Yes, indeed.' I than asked him if he felt an apology was owed to the young lady I overheard him berating earlier was in order. I asked him how he would have felt if I spoke with the same intention to his daughter or granddaughter the way he spoke to my employee. He nearly crapped his pants. He apologized. Now when he comes in he always brings something homemade his wife has made like brownies, etc in for her and gave her a very nice card for her graduation.

I find it interesting how Steve runs at the mouth boasting how big his annual sales are compared to yours. He acts so intelligent yet he makes many grammar mistakes in his emails.

That is the kind of crap that makes me sick. I bend over backwards for my customers on every end of my buisness. Even If I loose money that customer will be happy. There have been several instances where I have lost a bundle. But those customers got excellent service and most have repeated thier transactions with me frequently.

This kind of behavior to a customer is beligerent and completely out of line.

Since you are one of those know-it-all people from the north
east you might want to figure out that emails do not get through these
days!

And where does he get this info? Sounds to me this idiot is just making excuses. If a message goes undelivered your mail client will message you stating the email was unable to be delivered to recipient.

And to jm0963, I myself would not have been so considerate.
I have 3 daughters all of them a young age 8,6,and 2. If someone were to pull this kind of stunt on my kids , I would probably have to be removed by the police as I would be yelling loud enough for the whole store to hear. Even if its a mistake its still false advertising.

Jimmy,

My wife is a bit more easy going than I. And you are absolutley right. Had I been there I really may have created a scene with that person but what type of example would I have shown my daughter if what she takes away from it is just me screaming like a banshee. NOW!!! If my wife had taken my daughter out of the store and had me deal with the clerk than all bets are off and I have a feeling some very angry sentiments would have been expressed. LOL!!!

So Gift-House, do you think that they deliberately damaged the box AFTER you sent the email and they got aggro? or do you think it was already sent that way?

And where does he get this info? Sounds to me this idiot is just making excuses. If a message goes undelivered your mail client will message you stating the email was unable to be delivered to recipient.

kinda out of topic i just wanted to ask, I am just wondering if my english is really important to sell stuff on ebay, personally i know my self as very polite and friendly person to anybody, i dont think i will have any problems with my customers but just like you said how about my customers? will ppl get mad because of my grammar ? it looks like funny question but i just wanted to know your thoughts thank you so much for everything Jimmy

My off the cuff answer is yes. I know when I buy from an auction site, I scrutinize it. Your listing will be the electronic version of you. Sorry to say but if you can't write a clear message and presentation of your product, you may want to have someone with good english skills proof it for you.

This is just me, but when I start reading a listing and it has bad grammar or spelling mistakes, I usually stop before reading all of it and move on. People don't want to have to be made to feel they are taking an enlgish test to buy a product from you.

Hey Jimmy,as to Midtown Closeout, I have done some business with them altho not recently. I received the items on time and in good shape and they were 'as advertised'. I did run into a problem, as a diamond ring I purchased had a stone missing. I Called Steve and he gave me the RMA # and everything was taken care of to my satisfaction. I have purchased from them 3 different times with out a problem. But then I can`t speak for what happened to gift-basket. Leo Senechal[/b:0176f361]

Well, as we all know there are crappy customers as there are crappy businesses. Luckily, what you described I have found to be the exception more than the rule. But in regards to rude business people, it seems to be a fundamental flaw in how some people run their organization. From retail to biotech, there are a number of people who lack the basic gumption of how to communicate in a way that will allow for understanding. And lets not forget about how easy it is for some knucklehead hiding behind a keyboard to send off nasty e-mails without the threat of reprisal. I had a number of similar instances though not as nasty as your example in where a customer was berating one of my employee's who was doing everything under the sun to appease him. When she suggested he look at his receipt and notice he was NOT charged for the item as a show of good faith, he freaked!!! He began berating her to the point she was in tears. He screamed for her to get her manager. Now I'm a bit more formiddable at 6' 3' and 230 lbs than the high school junior I have working for me. When approached I spoke to him with both professionalism and with courtesy. What's funny is he was extremely courteous to me and didn't raise his voice once. When we finished the conversation I asked him if he felt the service he received was adequate? He replied 'Yes, indeed.' I than asked him if he felt an apology was owed to the young lady I overheard him berating earlier was in order. I asked him how he would have felt if I spoke with the same intention to his daughter or granddaughter the way he spoke to my employee. He nearly crapped his pants. He apologized. Now when he comes in he always brings something homemade his wife has made like brownies, etc in for her and gave her a very nice card for her graduation.

(don't think i would eat any of those brownies if i were you!j/k) i have worked in the service industry for the last 13 years all over the country; mostly resorts, national parks, and restaurants locally owned and also corporate and have seen WAY too many grown adults act embarrassingly childish and ridiculously overreact to the slightest situations. it really makes me wonder what these people do in REAL situations that are stressful!! i had a ridiculous woman scream @ me one time for them not recieving silverware before their meal came out when it is delivered by the host & we were so busy, we couldn't get it washed & rolled fast enough. and people on vacation are the worst, i don't know if they are pissed off cuz they are in a pristine environment with awesome scenery & incredible animals everywhere but they have to share with a million other people @ the same time, or if they just get cheap & mad cuz everything is so expensive...., but i have seen so many people get irrate about stupid things or demand crazy stuff!! i also think some people 'get off' on taking out all their frustrations on some person they don't know & will more than likely never see again and like you guys said, the internet is a perfect tool for these assholes!! and they could totally get Claires in trouble for false advertising in the case of the sign hanging advertising a false price and i can't believe the clerk acted that way.....seriously.....is it coming out of her pocket if things are mismarked?? i doubt it.....unless she's a general manager and getting some kind of bonus at the end of the year or something!! you guys are right about the fact that people in general are getting so rude & selfish it is disgusting....people in business & people shopping ALL need to start treating each other with a little respect!!! WE'RE ALL HUMAN!!!

kinda out of topic i just wanted to ask, I am just wondering if my english is really important to sell stuff on ebay, personally i know my self as very polite and friendly person to anybody, i dont think i will have any problems with my customers but just like you said how about my customers? will ppl get mad because of my grammar ? it looks like funny question but i just wanted to know your thoughts thank you so much for everything Jimmy

The problem is, nobody knows you on the internet except for the information you give them, & if you are constantly mispelling words and using bad grammar, people will judge you on that cuz they don't know anything else to judge you on!! from your email, it looks like you are pretty good @ communicating, but just always proof-read your descriptions and correspondence cuz it means alot to people to know they are dealing with a person who cares enough about their business to be as professional as possible!!