I may have to sue PayPal!

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coco60bean
Posts: 13
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17 Mar 07 05:18:05 pm
I contacted Jimmy a couple of weeks ago about a supplier I found out to be fraud....and now because of these people I may have to sue PayPal! This is my story....

I was doing research on the web looking for new dropship suppliers to re-open my Ebay store and restart my auctions. Through one of the suppliers I found here, I found an affilate called k-electronics.eu that was supposedly based out of the Netherlands. They had unbelieveably low wholesale prices. I contacted the company by email and began corresponding with someone named Michaal Van Maastret in customer service. I asked a lot of questions and everything seemed like it was on the up and up. So, I posted some listings in my Ebay store and at auction for some of their products.

I got great response to the listings...I had many bids and even sold three items with the Buy-It-Now option. I also had many questions on the other questions and so I began emailing Michaal again to get answers with no response. I began to get suspicious and emailed Jimmy and posted on the forum at SaleHoo. Jimmy was suspicious also and told me that he thought it might be a scam. I immediately emailed Ebay's Customer Service Department asking what to do about my listings. I heard nothing for two days and I became panicky because my listings were going to end soon and I didn't want to have to deal with explaining the situation to more than the three Buy-It-Now customers. I researched on Ebay and found something that told me that I could remove my listings...even the ones with bids..and Ebay would automatically cancel the existing bids. So, I cancelled all my listings on auction and in my Ebay store. I then sent letters to the three Buy-It-Now customers explaining that I had found out that my new supplier was a scam artist and that I could not complete their transactions. I told them I was extremely sorry and that I would refund the entire amount of their purchases through PayPal. The money from these people had been payed through PayPal and went into my PayPal account. I never ordered any items or had anything shipped because I had planned on drop shipping them through k-electronics.

Meanwhile on March 2, 2007, my PayPal account was put into limited access due to 'a sudden increase in you transaction volume'. Of course I had a sudden increase in my transaction volume....I hadn't had any selling activity for about 6 months because I had closed my Ebay store then temporarily.

Another hook was thrown into the water when I realized that when I had made a purchase from Ebay for my daughter's 21st birthday gift, instead of taking the payment directly from my checking account as they had done in the past when there was no balance in my PayPal account, PayPal took the $302.00 for the gift out of my PayPal balance which was the money from these three Buy-It-Now customers. To add to everything else, Frank Reed began to think I was scamming him...so he filed a complaint with PayPal.

I went on my PayPal account on March 9th, 2007 and refunded the first two Buy-It-Now customers with their money. When I tried to refund the third person, a Frank Reed for his $2,129.95 purchase of a Bose Home Theater System, my PayPal balance was short $302.00 because PayPal had used that amount to pay for my purchase for my daughter's birthday. Instead of taking the $302.00 from my checking account to add to the rest of my balance and to refund Mr. Reed, PayPal scheduled a transfer from my checking account for the entire amount of the refund...$2,067.88 (plus the refund of PayPal fees of $62.07)!! I immediately called PayPal's Resolution Department and spoke to a representative and he told me that there was no way to stop the transfer through PayPal, but that I could contact my bank and have them put a stop on the transfer of the entire $2,067.88. He told me that I could then transfer the $302.00 from my checking to my PayPal account and then the refund would continue as scheduled (complete on March 14th) and everyone would be paid off.

So, I went to my bank and told them that I needed to stop the transfer of $2,067.88 from my checking to my PayPal account. The man at the bank faxed me a paper to fill out and sign for the stop of the transfer. I filled it out and signed it and faxed it back to him. I then called my bank to make sure they received the fax and they told me they had and that the transfer would not be completed. I then authorized a transfer from my checking to my PayPal account in the amount of $302.00 to add to my PayPal balance so that the refund to Frank Reed would be completed on March 14th.

Meanwhile Ebay decided to suspend my account due to 'Abuse of Ebay', yet no one there could tell me exactly why or what that meant. They also said that they tend to go along with PayPal when there is a complaint filed.

I called PayPal's Resolution Department again and spoke to a Maureen in that department. The Resolution Department had requested information from me previously in order to 'remove the limitations on my account'. I faxed them all the information they asked for, excluding shipping information. I explained that the items purchased were never shipped because I was doing dropshipping and the items were intended to be shipped directly from the supplier. The items were never ordered....because I found out the company was a scam before it got to that point. I was trying to prevent an even bigger problem! I explained to Maureen the whole story, she wrote done the information and read each paragraph back to me to check that it was correct, and she said that she would send this information to review for removing the limitations on my PayPal account. She said that I would hear something within 24 hours.

I never heard anything from PayPal. On Friday, March 16th, 2007, my husband got his paycheck automatically deposited into our checking account. When I went to the store to buy groceries, my debit card was denied. I went home and looked at my checking account online and realized that the transfer that I had asked to be stopped went through anyway....and my husband's entire paycheck had been transferred to my PayPal account (2,067.88)!!
I then went into my PayPal account and tried to transfer the $2,067.88 back into my checking account, but because of the limitations on my account, it would not let me. I called PayPal again and spoke to a Ryan in the Resolutions Department. He proceeded to tell me that PayPal had decided to hold all the funds in my account for 180 days (6 months!)!!! I told him he was crazy.. that everyone had been refunded that needed to be and I had done everything they had asked and that they could not hold my money that was not authorized to be transferred in the first place! He told me that 'yes, they could' and this is where I am today! My husband just got paid, I have no money to live on for the next two weeks, my bills will not be paid, checks will probably bounce, and utilities will probably be shut off! I am so angry!!!! I will never, ever use PayPal again!!! Be very leary of them....if everything goes well ...they are usually OK. But if you have any sort of problem that is beyond your control....they will rake you through the coals!!!

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jimmy_huber
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18 Mar 07 04:05:42 am
I know that this is very much a pain in the rear. And this is not uncommon. Even though paypal is the most used for ebay transactions their actions themselves are slowly killing their business.

The only thing I can say is visit this site as it might teach you ways to fight paypal and their aristocratic BS.

Eventually one good thing will happen. Everyone will stop using them forcing them into bankruptcy.Many have moved to other services including google checkout and many others available to us.

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trillium
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19 Mar 07 01:05:21 am
One time I had someone try and scam me by not sending the items I had ordered and dissappeared immediately after payment. They were actually verified and confirmed. I paid through PayPal using a Credit Card. So I filed a dispute with PayPal and the C.C. Even after there was no responses from the seller, PayPal ruled in their favor and closed the dispute (a large amount). I guess PayPal did not want to loose all this money. A few days later when my CC finally contacted PayPal my dispute was reopened and then PayPal reversed their ruling and ruled in my favor.

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shepherds
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19 Mar 07 10:08:14 pm
I am also anti-paypal, I will probably be losing my income tax refund to them in a couple of days. I was suspended from ebay for a trademark issue that they were incorrect about, then they limited my access to paypal and said all of my fees were due now and charged my bank account! Are there any other popular checkouts other than Paypal and Google? Also, are you allowed to use Google on Ebay? I feel your pain, my mortgage will probably not get paid this month. :evil:

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coco60bean
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22 Mar 07 08:33:20 pm
This is an update to my dilemna....

I ended up going to my bank who had let the transfer of the 2,067.88 go through even though I had requested the stop on the transfer. The bank realized they had made a mistake and reversed the transfer by putting the money back into my checking account and crediting me for all the fees and check charges acrued. Now, they get to deal with PayPal directly to fight to get their money back! My PayPal account is still limited and my Ebay account is still suspended.....so much that I can't even get access to pay my fee bill. I have decided to go somewhere else and set up my own website and use Google checkout. Does anyone out there have any suggestions for starting my own website?

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jimmy_huber
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22 Mar 07 11:29:38 pm
try godaddy they have good prices and secure websites.


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tntcpu
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23 Mar 07 05:35:12 am
Godaddy is cool too!

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fm1234
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24 Mar 07 06:36:57 pm
These are all mainly the product of eBay and PayPal's 'guilty until proven innocent' approach to sellers. People rave and rave about 'consumer protection' aspects of eBay and PP but this is how they do it -- by screwing over honest sellers caught in the middle of scams and substandard suppliers.


"Failure is not when you fall down. Failure is when you don't get back up."

--J.J. Luna
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cazzabangeramshank
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30 Mar 07 01:16:52 am
I've seen one or two people use paymate? I'm not sure how good this is. Does anyone use this, or knows someone that does?

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trillium
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31 Mar 07 12:36:43 am
Anyone can buy something through Paymate but I think you have to be in Australia to sell through Paymate.

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litoallie
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31 Mar 07 07:16:17 pm
if your looking to start your own website but not really familiar with HTML's you could use yahoo small business with all templates given it looks pretty good . i'm looking to open one myself! maybe i could link your page to mine (vice versa!) to increase traffic flow !!

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bayericlowe
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31 Mar 07 07:48:40 pm
That's the whole moral of the story.

Paypal is sub-standard and poor when it comes to service. That means you have no choice in the matter, always look before you leap.


There is one great and wonderful silver lining. Google Pay is out very soon and will make Paypal obsolete. uBid, eBay and others will be forced to use Google Pay and will come to switch over.

And then Google Checkout is great too but that's already out, and it works specifically for online stores.

But once the bureaocracy takes effect they will become just as terrible as Paypal, so I want to see at least 3 payment providers enter the ring.

There are new services out now like CCS. I have not heard of them but I am checking it out. Most of these payment options, especially Paypal and Moneybookers, will only ever be good for small amount transactions.

Receiving maybe $300 at a time at most.

Anything above that, is highly risked and susceptible to online fraud. Paypal & its ilk deal with fraud by punishing the merchant consumer, this was their fatal mistake. To deal with transactions that are a large amount, someone needs to talk to both the buyer and the supplier and arrange the payment via Credit Card AFTER the billing address is verified to match the shipping address.

This would eliminate most every kind of risk there is. But not completely, so if you deal with any large transactions always ask your bank to watch it and make sure it isn't marked or illegal funds.

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mana2006
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1 Apr 07 03:34:08 am
I can't wait till a new system comes out. I have had my fair share of problems with paypal and ebay. I now prefer B2B over online auctions. Thoguh I still sell online from time to time. I use go daddy for web hosting and have had good luck. I am also waiting to see what auctiva does in the near future. They say they will have a store format soon. Maybe a good idea for ebayers

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jimmy_huber
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1 Apr 07 05:27:34 am
Yeah I heard about google wallet and that google was creating thier own auction type service. That might challange Ebay and Craigslist classified market for domination of the online sales marketshare.

Heck with the millions and millions of googlers and a fraud free payment service . It would definately take a chunk out of ebays revenues.

Ebay better get thier paypal problems fixed soon. And spend more time fighting fraud.


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mana2006
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2 Apr 07 02:36:43 am
I have heard about the wallet and actually looked into it a bit. Seems like a good program. Just hope that they expand the system soon. I think Ebay could improve if they had more compeition out there.

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direct-consumer
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11 Apr 07 05:24:44 am
I'm getting my website hosting through Web.com and am happy with them. You can get a basic website package for $9.99 with buy-it-now buttons or upgrade to a shopping cart system for only $20.00 monthly. They've got probly hundreds of templates.

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agasssilovesme
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28 Apr 07 11:54:26 pm
HI everyone
I had $1000 dollars diappear out of my bank account week and being a single Mum it was not a happy day. Paypal managed to get back $700 and was determined to say it was someone in my house using my login and password when I am the only prson in house. They all happened on the same day I myself made 2 paypal transactions. I use paypal as I beleive it to be safer than a credit card.. I am a bit scared now if it happenening again..

Cheers to all
Deb

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jimmy_huber
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29 Apr 07 02:44:56 am
Well just make sure to change your paypal password and if possible change email addresses.

If you recieve any paypal emails, Ignore them. If paypal has an alert for you you can view it on the main site. Never click any links in any ebay or paypal emails. :D


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rheabs
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7 May 07 11:00:11 am
Yeah I heard about google wallet and that google was creating thier own auction type service. That might challange Ebay and Craigslist classified market for domination of the online sales marketshare.

Heck with the millions and millions of googlers and a fraud free payment service . It would definately take a chunk out of ebays revenues.

Ebay better get thier paypal problems fixed soon. And spend more time fighting fraud.


Yep..i think pay pal and e bay has no back bone....in fact im sure e/bay will slowly die soon and pay pal will go aswell!

It good where someone will take e/bay on as i think this last few yrs thay have taken people for a ride with there listing fees ect..and pay pal the same...

My self has it with e/bay and going to get my new website going soon shop2play.com
so ill be on here with some great stock for everybody and ill will keep my prices down for you guys on here...

Best wishes..

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bayericlowe
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11 May 07 01:20:45 am
We're all going to be pretty much moving on from the world of Paypal and doing more and more transactions with just our online stores, with just accepting straight up service, with just google wallet.


Its just the market place changing is all.



And I have never dared do anything with eBay and its listing fees. I handle it my own way. I use none of the services.


I just do a flat listing and it usually costs no more than a $1


Then, I advertise it everywhere using free service from my online store etc. Still sell the products out and just as quick, and I cut out all the excess crap.



If they don't change with the times and ride the next wave, they can expect Google etc to pretty much force them too. Because we are at that point. We Store Owners are the new chip on the block, and we make the decisions for now on.

If they want our support and our networking, they can prove it just like with fighting fraud. And work with us, not the other way around. :D

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sahfire
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24 Jun 07 11:55:47 pm
Not so long ago I payed a seller (w/good ratings) on DHgate with my customers money. I had talked with the seller many times before the purchase to get to know him better. Some days later, he told me the item was out of stock. The money were actually verified and confirmed by then.

I got a little panic becuase this was my first wholesale buy! I emailed DHgate 8x times, no response at all! This was driving me nuts. Became extremly angry so I made a dispute with Paypal. I wrote a long ***Edited By Admin*** message filled with blood and hatred. Guess what? Mr.DHgate replied at the same day. Oh nooo... they were suddently afraid? Yay! Violence rocks!

Woho! Turn up the volume, give me some more Satyricon!
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I later got the money before Paypal could make a decision on the case. Now, the customer must ofcourse have his money back after these difficulties I've experienced. I gaved him the money I got back from PayPal. But it was much money left. After this, it was like weeks before he could get all back. I was lucky though, dad gaved me 652.05 USD for no reason at all. Problem solved, DHgate...serious place? NO! NO!

I've learned that you should not buy products with others money or list them on auction before you have purchased them from a secure source.

Note: Without PayPal I could be a burned chicken right now.

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sahfire
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25 Jun 07 12:31:33 am
Another thing...
I had problems to get a verified business account on PayPal.
Now you thinking, are you dumb. Maybe I am?


Anyway..
I didn't realized the 'number' you gotta use to confirm the payment first become visible at the bankaccount some days after payment. So I tried multiple times on the website, and yes...no more tries left. The only possible way is now to FAX the documents. No, I don't have a FAX buddy. I explained the situation 2x times. Later, thank god.. some female re-opened the activation possibility.
But fuck it all! I didn't knew I could use the same number I first got. I though I had to pay again or something. Now, my account was frozen again on that part.

I emailed em again many many times, I even toke pictures with my crappy cellphone camera
trying to prove it was really me, the real one they were talking to. And yes, It worked.. lol, but a female this time to. :roll:

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sahfire
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25 Jun 07 12:43:30 am
I don't know if this is negative comments about PayPal I've written. No, they are not. I just want to point out that PayPal can be your only chance in some cases.

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thiswayupuk
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22 Sep 07 09:39:33 pm
I have also fallen foul of ebay and paypal through no fault of my own.

I know what it is to receive supposed 'answers' to my mail that are chock-full of standard phrases that do nothing but add insult to injury

'I appreciate that you are frustrated...' (or something vaguely similar)

Frustrated does not begin to come close. Outraged perhaps, livid, furious...

Like you I have pursued alternatives and am now switching to Nochex. They're cheaper too :)

And if any of you guys find a chink in the armour, let me know - because I would relish the opportunity to see them in court.

grrr!

:evil:

Claire
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jimmy_huber
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23 Sep 07 04:31:49 am
Yeah they need to do something soon. My payapl account is now frozen for 180 days. They tried to hold 23,788 in funds that I was trying to refund back to the investment group. From what i know they had no intention of completing the reversals. Untill a paypal employee noticed I was working with a Lawyer on Link hidden: Login to view to file a lawsuit. I was literally 1 day away from filing a law suit with my county when they reversed the buyers groups payments.

Paypal Needs to Die A horrible death. They have screwed over thousands of honest people and destroyed thousands of buisnesses with thier unfair practices and illegal funds withdrawls.

I will dance around like a small schoolgirl that just got an ice cream cone when I hear that paypal has been dethroned as the top ebay transaction company.
Ill probably throw a party too.
:D :D


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james
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24 Sep 07 05:09:51 am
I think paypal earns more than ebay itself with high transaction fees

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sharkcart
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16 Dec 07 12:30:01 pm
I have my own auction site and I will pay special interest in a new online merchant provider.
I have also had my paypal account limited by them.

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planes
Posts: 839
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18 Dec 07 04:52:28 am
I hate to be the devils advocate here, but you kind of dug your own hole.

Your eBay account was probably put on hold because you didnt state you were dropshipping. Which you must do in a listing which is called a pre-order listing.
If you did state your listing was a pre-order listing
then they probably did it because you may have had 3 complaints from buyers.

Paypal almost always looks suspiciously at new accounts with high volume. They also look at sudden increases. Sounds like you may have had over 5000 in volume.

My paypal account always takes from my Checking account when i issue a refund if I dont have enough funds in Paypal. IS your account Premier?

The good new! Its no big deal. Your not ripping anyone off. Take a deep breath settle the dispute refund the money and start over.

If your ebay account is new and you get hit with 3 negs, just start another one. If your not ripping anyone off, eBay doesn't care. Just start a new email address with your new eBay account and dont combine the two eBay accounts.

DONT EVER count on a company to dropship unless you are 99% certain they are legit.

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spdlmt
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18 Dec 07 10:07:00 pm
to file a lawsuit. I was literally 1 day away from filing a law suit with my county when they reversed the buyers groups payments.

Paypal Needs to Die A horrible death. They have screwed over thousands of honest people and destroyed thousands of buisnesses with thier unfair practices and illegal funds withdrawls.

I will dance around like a small schoolgirl that just got an ice cream cone when I hear that paypal has been dethroned as the top ebay transaction company.
Ill probably throw a party too.
:D :D


I hear you man. I'vd been a Premier seller for 8 years on paypal and Power seller with perfect rating on ebay for even longer. I sold an item to a buyer. 4 days later when the item hadn't arrive(ground shipping mind you) he files a dispute. My account has a negative $500usd hold on it. I was in complete shock. The buyer claims the item never arrived or dhl lost/stole it. If paypal would have atleast called me i would have given them the tracking number so they could confirmed I shipped it and it arrived at his house. Now I have to go throught his 30+ day dispute crap.

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iluvmykids
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4 Jan 08 09:34:47 am
starboo.wordpress.com is where I rant about an eBay user that you should stay clear from! FYI: If you ever need to return and item that you paid via Paypal back to the seller, make sure you have 'ONLINE TRACKING'--because insured with return receipt (the green card where the person signs for it) is not acceptable. Paypal will not recognize it as legit even though it comes from a USPS service, a government agency!!! SO PLEASE, if you ever need to return an item for a REFUND, ALWAYS USE 'DELIVERY OR SIGNATURE CONFIRMATION' --not just a Return Receipt card!!! Just an FYI :0) Link hidden: Login to view Yes, I have SMC stuff on there... ne questions, don't hesitate to email me! Happy New Year!!! And eBay and Paypal BLOW CHUNKS.

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iluvmykids
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4 Jan 08 09:36:14 am
P.S. I can't wait to see Google Pay/Wallet/or whatever they call it! Good rids p.p.!

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snipingkid
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7 Jan 08 01:59:00 am
This is the problem with both ebay AND paypal. I have called for support many times and I always have trouble with the representatives... I understand them, and they seem to understand me, but they don't do what they said they'd do (ex: sending your information up for review).

My ebay account was banned over 10 times, and it was all by mistake, or I was in right to do what I did. I was robbed around 200 dollars in fees with refund problems.

Like many users said, they are killing their business, the problem is that ebay will never convert to google checkout or anything they do not own. Both ebay and paypal have very poor support, and if you try the hotline, you get 'supported' by cheaply paid indians that try to explain to you what THEY think happened...

If paypal dies, ebay will go down with it. How many sellers will want to deal with money order, checks or similar things? Paypal is safe when you know how to use it, and when you've learned from countless errors.


Like Mana2006 said, I also think that ebay should have a bit more competition. As great as the ebay system is, I can't wait for someone to attempt making something better, and when that happens, I'll do my best to support the other company to use both at my advantage. This is strickly business.

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bacpro
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8 Jan 08 05:09:07 pm
I am using Google checkout and I think
that they a good alternative...


J Baca
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fm1234
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8 Jan 08 07:52:30 pm
I saw this great post at the eBay forum that might help with PayPal service issues:

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Frank


"Failure is not when you fall down. Failure is when you don't get back up."

--J.J. Luna
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jimmy_huber
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8 Jan 08 11:52:29 pm
From new information its doubtfull google pay will ever get authorized for Ebay. Ebay will do everthing they can to keep paypal on top.


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bargainpirates
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10 Feb 08 03:32:16 pm
This similar thing happened to a friend of mine.He was selling a ton of football jerseys last year during football season,and right after starting his ebay store.On superbowl week,he sold dozens and dozens of jerseys.His paypal account balance went up to like $4000,and then PAYPAL froze his account,because of it being so high so quickly.Then they froze his money,and wouldnt give it to him for 6 months! They deleted his paypal account,so he waited the whole 6 months to get his money.

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guitarphil
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17 Apr 08 04:56:08 am
YOu know what? I had a period where I didn't sell and then I ramped up again. And I had alot of money in my account after a few auctions. Paypal locked my account to this day, this was over a year ago! I have not been able to access it or anything with it. Repeated emails, calls, and NOTHING. I had a ton of transactions through it and now just pretty much started over from scratch!

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